the following thread stemmed from my facebook status line on 7.25.09. my status is the first entry posted below and includes a quote from a woman whom i refer to as X.
Paola Lopez
"I say that people choose to be poor. This is America." --So said the Idiot (X.) who chose to engage in debate with me re Universal Healthcare in the States.
Dane Jessie
Excuse me, but I hate fucking idiots like that.
Paola Lopez
i know. i honestly had to disengage at that point because we were having two unrelated discussions on two separate levels and i began to watch myself de-evolve by virtue of being in near proximity to her.
J. Regina Blackwell
You know, Paola, you gotta wonder who she was trying to convince: you or herself. . . .
Paola Lopez
regina: good point. if you would have seen her argument in its entirety it was all over the place. she kept citing farmers in brazil of being a good example of how things go sour without the element of financial incentive to take care of one's crops. i pointed out to her that obama's current healthcare plan, as i understand it, allows for personal incentive - if you make more money you still get to lord it over your peers by paying for better health coverage. that it was a tiered system which enables those with means to continue to enjoy a better life than everyone else. so i didn't see what she was complaining about. ;-)
Dane Jessie
Statistically in America today only 1 out of 100 will advance in social standing (financial standing). And this is the first generation in our history that will make less than their parents.
Deede Wedee
We all stand for somthing, but we don't stand a chance. I can't even have political views anymore. I feel so helpless....but I shure do enjoy reading other peoples thoughts & ideals. The great debaters! Have a good day. Everyone And keep kickin that knowledge.
Dane Jessie
Deede, Don't give up. Even if it means sharing your views. It helps others grow and helps create the critical mass that leads to change. If you like hearing others it is because you are thinking, interpreting and weighting the ideas. That is what we need.
Paola Lopez
omg, dane, i was citing to someone that exact same statistic the other day - that upward mobility in this country is a myth. most wealth is transferred linearly - meaning, it's passed among those who are already wealthy or to one's offspring (inherited wealth). statistically speaking, the number of people who actually jump from their class and move upward is very, very small. sure, we hear success stories and they are touted around like the american ideal is commonplace, but it isn't. that american dream of working hard and elevating your class status is very, very rare. most of us work very hard and pretty much stay in the same class we were born to. the rags to riches story occurs in the smallest fraction of society. the rest of it is comprised of people who were already born to considerable wealth and resources and are thus in a position to expand. i recently cited the ole "you need $100 to make $500" example. it is a great opportunity only for those who already have $100.
Paola Lopez
dane: that was beautifully expressed, btw, what you said to deede. couldn'a said it better myself. we need this type of discourse, even if we disagree, so that we may see what we're working with and thus, begin to assess how we may next proceed.
and i agree, deede, if you enjoy hearing others spread information, it's because you're a thinking individual who is thirsty for data so that you can further develop your own opinions. that is awesome and we do greatly need people like you.
also, i know why you feel so hopeless. i often feel that way too - especially when i see how many people voted against universal healthcare in the u.s. in facebook's poll (a gargantuan amount, btw). but don't be afraid to voice your thoughts, deede, even if you're a mixed bag with disparate views on things; some issues you feel liberal about, others, conservative - there's likely many people out there who feel as you do, you just haven't found them yet. :)
Dane Jessie
The situation is not as frustrating as the blindness of the masses.
Dane Jessie
I believe the only way we grow (in our opinions and challenge our world view) is by listening to those with different points of view. Sometimes it turns a lock and we can evolve our own thinking.
Paola Lopez
"I say that people choose to be poor. This is America." --So said the Idiot (X.) who chose to engage in debate with me re Universal Healthcare in the States.
Dane Jessie
Excuse me, but I hate fucking idiots like that.
Paola Lopez
i know. i honestly had to disengage at that point because we were having two unrelated discussions on two separate levels and i began to watch myself de-evolve by virtue of being in near proximity to her.
J. Regina Blackwell
You know, Paola, you gotta wonder who she was trying to convince: you or herself. . . .
Paola Lopez
regina: good point. if you would have seen her argument in its entirety it was all over the place. she kept citing farmers in brazil of being a good example of how things go sour without the element of financial incentive to take care of one's crops. i pointed out to her that obama's current healthcare plan, as i understand it, allows for personal incentive - if you make more money you still get to lord it over your peers by paying for better health coverage. that it was a tiered system which enables those with means to continue to enjoy a better life than everyone else. so i didn't see what she was complaining about. ;-)
Dane Jessie
Statistically in America today only 1 out of 100 will advance in social standing (financial standing). And this is the first generation in our history that will make less than their parents.
Deede Wedee
We all stand for somthing, but we don't stand a chance. I can't even have political views anymore. I feel so helpless....but I shure do enjoy reading other peoples thoughts & ideals. The great debaters! Have a good day. Everyone And keep kickin that knowledge.
Dane Jessie
Deede, Don't give up. Even if it means sharing your views. It helps others grow and helps create the critical mass that leads to change. If you like hearing others it is because you are thinking, interpreting and weighting the ideas. That is what we need.
Paola Lopez
omg, dane, i was citing to someone that exact same statistic the other day - that upward mobility in this country is a myth. most wealth is transferred linearly - meaning, it's passed among those who are already wealthy or to one's offspring (inherited wealth). statistically speaking, the number of people who actually jump from their class and move upward is very, very small. sure, we hear success stories and they are touted around like the american ideal is commonplace, but it isn't. that american dream of working hard and elevating your class status is very, very rare. most of us work very hard and pretty much stay in the same class we were born to. the rags to riches story occurs in the smallest fraction of society. the rest of it is comprised of people who were already born to considerable wealth and resources and are thus in a position to expand. i recently cited the ole "you need $100 to make $500" example. it is a great opportunity only for those who already have $100.
Paola Lopez
dane: that was beautifully expressed, btw, what you said to deede. couldn'a said it better myself. we need this type of discourse, even if we disagree, so that we may see what we're working with and thus, begin to assess how we may next proceed.
and i agree, deede, if you enjoy hearing others spread information, it's because you're a thinking individual who is thirsty for data so that you can further develop your own opinions. that is awesome and we do greatly need people like you.
also, i know why you feel so hopeless. i often feel that way too - especially when i see how many people voted against universal healthcare in the u.s. in facebook's poll (a gargantuan amount, btw). but don't be afraid to voice your thoughts, deede, even if you're a mixed bag with disparate views on things; some issues you feel liberal about, others, conservative - there's likely many people out there who feel as you do, you just haven't found them yet. :)
Dane Jessie
The situation is not as frustrating as the blindness of the masses.
Dane Jessie
I believe the only way we grow (in our opinions and challenge our world view) is by listening to those with different points of view. Sometimes it turns a lock and we can evolve our own thinking.
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